the underview.
The underview is an exploration of the shaping of our place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.
The underview is a series of discussions within and about the community of Northwest Arkansas. The underview explores our collective understanding and beliefs about the place we live.
These discussions will include topics that are foundational to the identity of our region, the history of our communities, the truth of conflict with the land and its people, and the current challenges and opportunities for our community.
the underview.
the cycling community with Andy Chasteen (ep 2b, 41).
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, we sit back down with Andy Chasteen, co-founder of Rule of Three and Oz Gravel, to reflect on the state of cycling in Northwest Arkansas. Andy first joined us in season one to share his vision for cycling as a force for belonging in this place. This follow-up conversation explores how that vision has evolved against the backdrop of national division, local debates, and the ongoing growth of our cycling culture.
Andy speaks candidly about the challenges of polarization and how simple practices like a wave on the trail or a shared ride can counteract division. He reflects on the transition of Arkansas Rural Recreation Roads into the Ozark Foundation, the conversations sparked by the Ozark Podcast, and his perspective on the “All Bikes Welcome” mural decision in Bentonville. At the heart of it all is his conviction that cycling can bring people together across differences, creating opportunities for inclusion, bridge-building, and community repair.
This episode is both an honest reckoning with the tensions we face and an invitation to imagine how the cycling community can lead with kindness, humility, and shared humanity.
Episode webpage: https://www.theunderview.com/episodes/the-underview-cycling-community-andy-chasteen-rule-of-three-oz-gravel
About the underview:
The underview is an exploration of the development of our Communal Theology of Place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.
Website: theunderview.com
Follow us on Instagram: @underviewthe
Host: @mikerusch
Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theunderview/message
Social media feeds us what we want to hear. It puts us into our echo chambers. And then the next thing you know, we think the other side sucks. They're evil. I hate them. So we're getting into a little, political culture type conversation, but I think that this matters for our cycling community, right? I think that we need leaders that are, forgive me, but I think we need leaders that are gonna say, bullshit. This doesn't work here. We're humans. We're all the same people, I don't care what you believe, who you believe in, somebody's gonna have to stand up and say that we're gonna have to be kind to one another. If I'm being completely honest, I'm fed up with it. Yeah. I'm fed up with all of it. I'm ready for us all to come together and say, listen. Yeah, we believe differently we may have big differences, but we can come together on a few things and let's just start there.
mike rusch.:We are listening to the interview and exploration in the shaping of our place. My name is Mike Rush, and today we're gonna return to a familiar voice. In the world of Ozark cycling, the co-founder of The Rule of three Oz Gravel, Arkansas, rural recreational Roads, and all around Ozark cycling, community ambassador Andy Chasteen. Andy and I had a chance to speak about a year and a half ago, and he shared a vision for cycling that went beyond sport or recreation. It was a way of connecting people to each other and to this place. Well, if you haven't noticed, a lot has happened since then. While the cycling community in northwest Arkansas has continued to grow and evolve, our national dialogue has become well fractured, but that fracture isn't just somewhere else. That fracture point has now moved through our community, and I would dare say through the cycling community as well, so I wanted to sit down with Andy to have a conversation about his thoughts on the current state of the cycling community here in northwest Arkansas, the implications of what happened as Bentonville wrestled with the All Bikes welcome mural controversy, and to get his thoughts on the Ozark podcast conversations about cycling, to understand, did that change anything? He's also seeing the transition of the Arkansas Rural Recreation Program, the R3 program, to the Ozark Foundation, and what does he expect of that? The thread through all of this is that what's at stake here is more than the future of cycling. It's the heart and soul of Northwest Arkansas. While the community has been tested, I wanna understand, are these going to be instruments of belonging or will they perpetuate further division? Can cycling, which has transformed our region, also helped transform how we relate to one another in a time when division threatens to pull us apart. Can it be a place of bridge building and not an accomplice of division? In this conversation, Andy reflects on where we are today, and I'm gonna tell you he doesn't hold back. He shares his thoughts about cycling and what that reveals about who we are and how it might help us build bridges across our differences. We talk about leadership and kindness and rural relationships, and what it takes for the cycling community to live up to the messages that are painted on our walls, that you belong here and that all bikes are welcome. All right, let's get into it. I have a privilege today of sitting back down with my friend Andy Chasteen and sharing the table. Andy, welcome back. It's great to have you. Thanks. Good to hear back here. Yeah, we've had a lot of conversations about cycling and culture and community and I was like, I would love to sit back down with Andy and flash forward from when we talked probably a little over a year ago to just sit down and see where you're at. Yeah. There's been a lot happening in the city of Bentonville in northwest Arkansas. Probably most importantly, it's almost October in the Ozarks. And so what I consider like almost this little bit of salvation in many ways, I know. Yeah. Of being able to, yeah. I feel like I've been waiting so long for this kind of, I, I call this season of Advent, right? I'm waiting for October, so I feel like I'm about to like, step into this glorious time of year. Yeah, I catch this up a little bit on where you're at and what you're thinking about. Where have you been spending your time lately? What's been rolling around in your head?
andy chasteen.:Obviously I've been riding my bike a lot. Yeah.'cause that's what keeps me sane. Every summer, me and Jackie love to go out in the van out west, escape a little bit of the heat, go into the mountains, ride our bikes every day, stay on public lands, not see humans for a little while. It's pretty fun. It's nice. And we've actually been out there quite a bit this summer, so we've spent a lot of August in Colorado riding our bikes and man, just, just working. And I can work, remote. We got star starlink, starlink,
mike rusch.:I did that this summer. That was amazing,
andy chasteen.:dude. I know, like it really changes everything. Used to, we've been going out in the van for a long time, but used to, we would like not argue, but argue a little bit out over I can't, we can't stay in this spot 'cause it doesn't have self service babe. And I can't get work done. And she'd be like, this is an amazing spot. And I'm like, wait, it is, but we can't stay here. And now we stay where ever we want 'cause I can work anywhere, right? So we can be up on, at 11,000 feet somewhere. And so that's been awesome. It's been a nice summer. We actually here too. There was some ups and downs. Yeah. With some temps and stuff, but yeah, life's been good, man. That's good. I will say I'm super excited for October, like you said, coming in we're finally catching a little break in the weather and, we got a big old rainstorm yesterday, so the trails are gonna be in nice shape over the next few days. So yeah, man, everything's been good.
mike rusch.:Andy, one of the things that I just, I've appreciated, obviously you've been in northwest Arkansas for a while now. But you love this place, right? I do. I really do. I think, you have been a part of really shaping the culture and the community of what's happening here in northwest Arkansas. When we sat down last time, we talked about really, I think this vision for cycling that you had, that I think one of my takeaways was that you, you have this desire. It feels I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but to be, just be rooted in this place and to be rooted in community and to do what you can to really figure out how do we create this community where people are welcome and they feel like they belong. And you're doing that through cycling, which, is part of, I, I think one of the most beautiful ways that I've seen this community grow and evolve in all of that. And I'm just curious, where do you sit within all of that today? Sure, yeah. Yeah. Gimme a flavor of where you're at and how you're thinking about that these days.
andy chasteen.:Yeah. I, I can't remember if I don't know if I told this. The story, our first go around, but I'm gonna say it again. So I moved here from a place called Oklahoma City. Obviously everyone knows that it's a much smaller cycling community. It's very road centric. There's not a lot of opportunities to get off road for dirt and mountain bike and things like that. You can, you gotta drive things like that. So the cycling community there is much smaller. But one thing that I really loved about that place is that the cycling community was tight. And when you have a small cycling community, it's a lot easier for people to be more tight knit. Volunteer for the weeknight crits, like things like that, right? It's much easier to build a a tight knit community when it's small. But when I moved here, it's big. There are a lot of bike riders here, right? And so one thing, one of the first things I noticed here is it's a little bit more compartmentalized. There's lots of different styles of riders here. You've got gravel, you've got a, a small kind of road scene, but that it's here. And then you have, and then you have how many genres of mountain bikers. You know what I'm saying? I think there's a new one born every day. There's, I know. And there's a lot, right? And one thing I noticed that's a little bit com compartmentalized, and I'm not this technical thinker, but like through my thoughts, I'm like, how can you get all these people together? It's tough. Yeah. Like it's tough. We're, it's a big scene, but, and again, I'm a, I have a simple monkey brain and and my thoughts were, we're like, how can we just be friendly together? And that's where the wave idea came. And I don't know that, like my answer to your question would be that I've been thinking about it in new ways or has it evolved? How long ago did we talk? Maybe a year. A year? Maybe a little more. Something like that. I, I don't know. Maybe it's the same. Maybe it's a little better. Maybe. I don't know. I really don't know. That's a great question to ask that I don't. I clearly know the answer to obviously, but I do know that some things work and that's bringing people together in one place, no matter what kind of bike you ride, it doesn't matter what kind of bike you ride. So that works, right? And then also the wave, right? There's all these little simple things that can certainly work, and I'm not gonna pretend to know all the answers, but I'm gonna continue to just pound that into people's brains. And here's a great example. If somebody, if I wave at somebody out on the trail and they don't wave back, I'm like, Hey, wave, you're gonna stalk 'em a little bit. I try not to be mean about it, but I'm like, you should if somebody waves at you and you don't wave back, come on now. Come on. That's right. You're gonna stalk'em with kindness. It's like those are like, kill 'em with the kindness, it's interesting. I. You, you asked that question. I don't know that I have the answer to that question, but I do know that some simple things really do work,
mike rusch.:I think maybe the root behind that is, no surprise to anybody that's listening, our society, our culture seems to be going in the opposite direction For sure. For sure. Away from each other, right? Yeah. And so I think when you step into creating community, especially around cycling, the, I hope, I think the desire is to be a counterweight to that, right? And yeah, I think, I'm curious if you see different challenges or different opportunities maybe than we have, in the, maybe the first five years, first 10 years that you've been here. Like how are we seeing that changing? Or do you really feel like cycling can continue to be the space where Yeah, we have an opportunity as a community to step into it together and maybe counteract or be a counterweight to all the voices that would tell us Yeah that we shouldn't be doing
andy chasteen.:that. I think it can. I think that we need leaders in our community to. Buck that trend.'cause that is a trend right now in our culture, in our societies. Even in our communities or whatever. And I'll just come out and say it. I'm a political centrist. Yeah. And I'll tell you why. Because we live in the biggest melting pot in the history of the world. So if I want to get some things done in life, I'm gonna have to compromise with people who don't believe in the same things that I believe in. And I think that, I think that should spill over into all works of life in your church, in your community, in your work, in people who are not willing to compromise on things with people. You're never gonna get anything done in life. And I believe that's that way in the cycling community. If you believe different than me, that's okay. Let's figure out where we can start. Okay, let's start somewhere. You and I are both humans. Okay? There's a start, right? We're both dudes. Okay. There's another one. We're, we both love to ride bikes. Okay. There's another one. So you come, you just keep going and you build this consensus until you find that spot where you disagree. And then you're like, okay, we, where can we figure out how to and I, listen, I'm rambling at this point. No, keep going. But I really I just I think that we have to, our culture has and a lot of this, it really is social media. Social media feeds us what we want to hear. It puts us into our echo chambers. And then the next thing you know, we think the other side sucks. They're evil. I hate them. And were we like that before social media? I don't remember that. Maybe some were, but I don't think most people were. So we're getting into a little, like a political culture type conversation, but I think that this matters for our cycling community, right? I think that we need leaders that are, forgive me, but I think we need leaders that are gonna say, bullshit. This doesn't work here. We're humans. We're all the same people, I don't care what you believe, who you believe in somebody's gonna have to stand up and say that we're gonna have to be kind to one another. And I'm jumping right in here, but let's go. But I I'm if I'm being completely honest, I'm fed up with it. Yeah. I'm fed up with all of it. I'm ready for us all to come together and say, listen. Yeah, we believe differently we may have big differences, but we can come together on a few things and let's just start there. Let's start there. And, but I think that you can overcome that in, you know, in a workplace. Hell, we can overcome that in the political sphere. If we can have some leaders who will stand up and say, this is enough. This is enough. It's enough of this. I thought about the I rode in from the house. It's like a, on my regular bike, usually a e-bike. But it's a little bit longer when I ride on the regular bike. And I was thinking about this when I came in, I was like, do I really wanna talk about these things?'cause sometimes this gets people fired up, right? Yeah. P politics really gets people fired up. And I'm like, you know what? I don't care. I don't care. We're gonna talk about this. And people may not like to hear, they may not like to hear what I'm saying, but we're gonna have to say, enough is enough. I don't hate you. I don't hate anyone for what they believe. Un unless it's like. Evil. That's a, that's, that's a different thing. Evil is evil, right? But man, just because we believe in a different tax rate or or whether or not, listen even very polarizing topics like let's say abortion. Yeah. We can still respect each other for believing different things. Can we not? Yeah, I think we can. Okay. And I think that goes for the cycling community too. Yeah. Okay. So let's distill it down to that and we can start there and I just feel like we can come together on, on things that we all agree on. And there's a lot of things that we agree on before we start getting into those things that we don't, I don't know, man. I'm fed up. I'm sorry. I wanna see people happy and and coexisting together in a way that actually brings fulfillment to us. Like I'm just I wanna see that. And I think we can do that here. I think we can, I think we, it could be done anywhere, but I think we can certainly do it here if we just have some people who stand up and say, this is it. Come on, let's come together. And I know that sounds, maybe it's more complicated than that, but also maybe it's not, I don't know. I don't know.
mike rusch.:I'll let you just keep going because at this point I'm gonna ask her to sign the petition to get you signed up for city council or something. But
andy chasteen.:it's political grandstanding. I'm sorry. And I hate to see cur keep cursing. My mom and dad are gonna be like, why do you have to curse? Stop the political grandstanding. Stop attacking the pe your even your political opponents. Let's stop attacking them. And if you want to run against someone else who disagrees with you, don't go after them. Say, this is what I will do for you or not for you in differently. I just, we're in this we're in this weird realm of if I disagree with somebody, I'm attacking them, I'm going after them. Instead of Hey, maybe I should sit down in private with this person and have a conversation with them and find some common ground. And then we don't have to attack each other in public. And then we, since we're not attacking each other in public, then the people who are on this side and this side, they're also not going to attack each other in public. It's leadership. It's leadership, right? Because we, I as a citizen, I'm just a citizen. That's all I am. But if I'm a citizen and I see, let's just say I see the political person that maybe I ag agree with attacking their political opponent. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna follow that, right? I'm gonna if I see it, we're creatures of, you are what you eat, right? You are who who you hang out with, who you follow. Yeah. Back to cycling. Sorry.
mike rusch.:I think part of this conversation, sorry. Gosh dang, we get into politics pretty quickly too. Do not apologize. I think part of this is, I mean, you know, you've been paying attention to what's been happening in the city yeah. Around some of the controversy that we've had to deal with the mural and all bikes welcome. And so like, it's, it's relevant
andy chasteen.:it just immediately devolves. Yeah. And the, you can't have a intelligent conversation about anything because it devolves to name calling and you're evil. No, you're evil. No, you're evil. No, you're evil. No. Let's sit down and talk about it, and if it happens to, if it has to be done with no microphone and no cameras, then that's probably how it should be done. Because oftentimes these microphones and these cameras is when you start grandstanding Yeah. For your people,
mike rusch.:and I think part of this is not to rehash the mural conversation, but I think there's some things that you're speaking to directly that were really, to me, they were revealed around maybe the division that I didn't think was as deep as maybe it was. Sure. Yeah. And I think, I walk away from this past season saying, what do we need to do as a community to build bridges towards each other?'cause it feels like every time I turn around they're like being torn apart or torn down. And I believe, strongly in the cycling community is as a force in our community that is doing a lot of good and can build bridges. And I think this is part of the question that I have is where we stand now on, and I'll just, I'll pick on the mural, but Sure. You could pick on any issue, like you said before, like where, how do we, like, where do we start to think about if we're gonna build a community? Where everybody can belong and it's going to be centric around art and it's going to be centric around cycling. And all and experiences and building community. Yeah. How do we reengage? How do we do that? Yeah. In a way that I think comes back to exactly what you're talking about, which is seeing the humanity in people first.
andy chasteen.:Yeah. I'll start with the I'll back up just for a second on the mural topic. I don't know much about the mural topic. You and I talked about this like a week ago or whatever, right? We were in Colorado this whole time this thing was going on. So I didn't, I didn't know what was going on. I didn't really have a I have a peripheral knowledge of what happened, but and maybe it's good that I don't know what happened because I can just, I can walk in the door and say, listen, why didn't both sides compromise on something? Yeah. Keep the mural up in a way I, listen again, this is my ignorance talking 'cause I don't. I don't, I didn't go watch the city council video. I haven't seen it. But like in my simple brain, I'm like, okay one side doesn't want it, the other side does. How can we come to some sort of compromise to keep it there? Because it is a beautiful, message. All bikers welcome. That sounds pretty good to me. You know what I mean? All people welcome. Everybody's welcome. That sounds like a good message to me. Now again I don't know the specifics. I know a few, but I don't, I also don't wanna speak to it 'cause I don't wanna speak wrongly here. But listen, there's gonna have to be compromise on both sides of every coin. Yeah. In every community, in every church. I keep saying church. I grew up in church. Yeah. Um, In every workplace. In every facet of life. Yeah. Whether you live on a commune or you live in LA. There's compromise, right? And I just feel like no one's willing to compromise in today's day and age. We've picked our sides, we've drawn the line in the sand, we have our red lines, and those aren't to be crossed. And I just feel I know there's a there's two parts to this question. I've already forgot the second part. You have to remind me. I'll get you. But I think that this is what I was taught as a child, and I'm not perfect. I I lose this sometimes in my day-today, life. Okay. But let's just say I'm sitting across from you, Mike, and you disagree with me on something, let's say it, let's say it's a moral matter. Let's just say it's a moral matter. I
mike rusch.:would say you probably shouldn't be running a 42 on your front chain ring. So if you wanna start there, we can devolve into whatever that conversation should
andy chasteen.:be. Let's say that's an existent existential question right now.
mike rusch.:Do you believe in Exactly, yeah. Ability of A 42. Yes. I know. Tea chain ring to power your life.
andy chasteen.:That is funny. I do have a 42. I know you do. Sometimes it's too big.
mike rusch.:I have a 42 also. It's too much for me. It's much, but keep going too much.
andy chasteen.:Yeah, for sure. Especially out in the Newton County. Yeah. But here is my moral compass. Okay. And it's very simple. If you disagree with me, Mike, and you disagree with me on a very moral issue, right? And let's just say that I believe that you are morally wrong. Guess what? I still love you. Yeah. Simple. That's it. I still love you as a human. I still respect you. And even your viewpoint, even if I disagree with it, like vehemently. And I think that, I think that if that's written on everybody's hearts or on your dang mirror in the morning or whatever, right? My wife Jackie and I, we argue all the time we're both super type A, right? Yeah. I'm very Type A. She's maybe even more Type A. But the funny thing is even if we're in this really difficult argument about something like May, we may not be able to come to terms on this one. The second one of us says, you know what? I still love you. I still love you. This makes me want to cry almost. It changes everything, dude. You know what I'm saying? And why can't we do that with everyone else? I just this is bothering me.
mike rusch.:Yeah.
andy chasteen.:That our community and our country is falling into this trap of hating each other. It's gotta stop at some point, it's gonna have to stop, yeah. So what was the second part?
mike rusch.:We were supposed to talk about some cycl cycling. My, oh gosh, let's get to that. Oh, gosh, I don't know. This is heavy. I don't want No, but it's, I think, is, for me, dude, is, this is the core of it. I think the question that I have been trying to answer or exploring, for lack of better words has been how, what does it look like to, for us to reconnect to our place in a way that, that we feel like we belong and we have this vested interest in making sure that the things that we do and the way we make decisions, that they're for this place and that they're for other people.
andy chasteen.:Yeah.
mike rusch.:And and you are, you're clearly there, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's we see this, I always say this like I think in some ways we want to have these, really in depth conversations. We want to have some end all, be all solution for solving all the world's problems. We want it to fit into the model that we feel comfortable with. Yeah. And I think at the end of the day it's a lot of what I've always loved and respected about the work that you're doing is that it really is pretty simple and that it is to draw it back to these places of what does it look like to wave to other people. Yeah. Across what is an assumed divide between maybe a rural and urban community or agrarian society. And I think for me, it's found in the simplicity and I, frankly, I don't think we can talk about that enough, and I, we can't be reminded of it. I Enough either. Yeah. I,
andy chasteen.:yeah. These are, these really are. I didn't mean to come in here and talk about, I thought we were gonna talk about cycling for a long time. We, we'll talk about, I do have some and we're going to practical questions. I dunno how many people have turned off yet. But but that's okay. I think these things need to, I think these conversations need to happen. And listen, we don't have to agree on everything. Like you said, we shouldn't, we're humans. Like when I just told you I'm a political centrist I will vote for whoever I think is the right person for that job. I don't give a crap what their, what that, what their, rd I could care less. Do not put me in a box. I'm not in a, you will never put me in a box. I'm not in a box. I'll fight outta that box.
mike rusch.:Yeah.
andy chasteen.:But but you guess what? If you vote different than me? That's okay. I don't care about that either. I care that you and I have some common beliefs. We both love to ride bikes. I believe in freedom of speech 'cause I get to sit here and talk to you about how I feel that repercussion from my government. Okay. And so these are like these little common beliefs that I think almost all of us can agree on here. Let's start there. Yeah. How about that?
mike rusch.:I mean, maybe let's get practical for a minute. Yeah. Because I think as we talked about, there's some things that do work itself out in the everyday coming and going of who we are as people in a community. And yeah, I think one of those things that I've always, I'm a huge fan of Arkansas, rural recreational roads. Yeah, for sure. That you were at the heart and the center of helping to create and get started. And I'm a firm believer in the ability of that to really expose people to our community connected with the land. But I know some of the things that you've had to deal with early on in that is just some friction between for sure. People who look at each other, that maybe they look at each other and you look very different. Yeah. And you've had some success there. And I think it's carried into the culture making. Especially in gravel cycling of, I know when we go out with our group, everybody without hesitation the wave that you've asked people to adopt has been adopted, right? And I think it's, I think with, with Arkansas R3, now that's moving over into the Ozark Foundation. Yes. And I'm, I am curious, what should we expect? What are your expectations? As you see this move into a new organizational structure, Mike Spivey and the group at Ozark Foundation's phenomenal. Yeah. I'm curious, if you could give us a little behind the scenes on like how do you see that as a continued Yeah. Tool. Sure. Or what are your expectations for that?
andy chasteen.:I I guess maybe we start with the, maybe the reason it moved over there. The Ozark Foundation is a dialed organization Yeah. With Mike and Brandon and all that crew and Julie and the whole crew. I don't wanna leave anybody out. They are dialed in what they do. They're very good at what they do, and they have more resources. And that was really the deciding factor and let's let them pick up the carry the torch. They'll be able to expand. They'll be able to run it a little bit better. They're gonna bring on Bobby Finster. Oh, dude.
mike rusch.:Amazing human. Yes. Amazing human. We need to get him in here and talk.
andy chasteen.:Yes. And listen. One of the cool things I like about Bobby, Bobby is he's great with people. A good bike rider, he's all these things, but guess what? He's from rural Arkansas. And so he's got this story and he's got this ability to relate to people who I think that we need to be more in tune with. Yeah. And so it seemed like a no-brainer. Whoever over there brought on Bobby was. Yeah. It was a killer move. And I think they did an amazing job on bringing him in. And so I think they'll be able to expand. I think someone up in Michigan is doing the rural. I've heard about that thing. Yeah, absolutely. So it, it is catching some steam. And so that was the reason why I think it was let's let them carry this torch, and quite honestly, I don't know. I personally don't know the inner workings of what's the future look like? But I'm interested in, I'm interested to hear, I hope that they I really would love to see them pick up these these rides out to farms and these where we can have these like face-to-face conversations with the people out that live out on these roads that we're riding on. Because I think that's really where the difference is made. That, that one awesome one that we did with Wes. Oh, amazing. I still talk to Wes, every week almost. We text all the time.
mike rusch.:I know and I'm always like watching his fix it or keep farming videos too. Isn't that amazing? I don't know how he knows how to do what he does, but it's amazing.
andy chasteen.:See, that's where social media is great.
mike rusch.:Yeah.
andy chasteen.:Obviously social media sucks in a lot of ways, but like Wes. Wes Evans', should I fix it or give up farming? Yeah, it's great. It's great, dude.
mike rusch.:It restores my faith in our humanity.
andy chasteen.:Right? And dude, he'll text me shop Shopify, Spotify playlist that he's listening to while he's out. B bailing hay doing the work. Dude, we're budsman. I love that guy. He's the best. And and I just, I think people like that. Listen, I was close-minded and he was close-minded before we became buddies. Think about that. How many more times can we can we make that happen over the next few years? I just, I think that's where Arthur should go, and I hope that's where it's going. I think it probably is. Yeah.
mike rusch.:Yeah. I am, I'm biased. I love it. And I do feel like I, where we started this conversation with the divides in our community. Yeah. If that's. That's not the only divide. And I'm not saying it sure has to be a huge divide, but if there is distance between community members or misunderstandings or we can't slow down enough to at least listen to each other I'm a huge believer in what our three can Yeah. Can make possible from creating spaces where yeah, maybe we can start our conversations from a different place. And the work is there. We were on a ride earlier this week and you know, we had an apple thrown at us, right? Yeah. Or one of our, not to me, but to one of the person that was riding with us. Yeah. And like an apple at 40 miles an hour is not an insignificant thing. So there's, we are just running so hot as a community. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, for sure. That for some reason, like I've had more people yelling at me on a bike. I haven't done anything wrong. Yeah. And I feel like if this can, that wave and that approach can take the temperature down. I think the cycling community has a real opportunity to lead in this space, frankly. Yeah. And yeah. So I think R3 can be a great tool in all of that.
andy chasteen.:I think that, and if I could add to that it's interesting you say that. I'm gonna give you two sides of this. The first side is I'm going to I'm gonna add on to what you just said. I've been flipped off a lot lately. Yeah, I have. And what's interesting is the two times that I've been flipped off most recently has been by cars coming towards me. Yeah. And they're flipping me off in their front window. It's just the default as, and I'm literally just minding my business, riding down the road. I'll start with that. You got anybody's way, you, I'll start with that. Yeah. The third time I got flipped off was on Ford Springs Road. And this is, I'm not proud of, but I want to say how I acted. Yeah. Because this is how we should not, so I got flipped off Ford Springs Road and this was, I was with a couple buddies and this was maybe a month ago, and they flipped me off as they were passing. So they passed by us. And and so I, I figured I would I was having a bad day. Yeah. And I'm embarrassed to say this, so I sped up Yeah. And I followed 'em to the intersection of Forest Springs and McNally, and they got stuck behind a couple cars. Yeah.
mike rusch.:They don't realize how fast you're going. And so
andy chasteen.:Andy Chasteen pulled up next to'em and I knocked on their window and I asked them to roll their window down. And it was a man and his wife, I don't know, maybe in their fifties, something like that. And they rolled their window down and I proceeded to verbally abuse them for doing that. Yeah. Does that make you feel good flipping someone off like that? Do you like that? Does that make you feel good? Yeah. Call 'em a few choice names. And can I just say that is not what we should do, right? Yeah. I'm guilty of the same thing. Listen I am. That really does happen rarely with me. I'm not a confrontation. I actually hate confrontation, right? I'm not that kind of human. But for some reason that day I just felt the need to do it and I shouldn't have. And eventually they just pulled off because they had their way to go. They never said one word back to me. But guess what happened? They left thinking that we're all assholes. Yeah, because I was to 'em. When I should have really just waived and that's it. I should have just waived,
mike rusch.:let
andy chasteen.:it be. I should have let it be. And I don't want anybody to think I'm a perfect human 'cause I'm not. I do that from time to time, but that sometimes is why we get flipped off is because of what I just did. Yeah. And I think that is, we all should be, some people are a little bit more hotheads than others. Yeah. I get that.
mike rusch.:I go from zero to 60 real quick.
andy chasteen.:Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's an embarrassing story for me to tell, because that's not who I am as a human. But sometimes what we do is not who we are. For all of us at times. But I think I wanted, I just wanted to tell that story because I speak this, I preach this, Hey, wave it ever be kind all the time. Listen, I'm not perfect. Okay. I fall into that as well. But what I did, those two people will look at cyclists differently forever because of me.
mike rusch.:Yeah.
andy chasteen.:When I could have just waved at 'em and they probably would've looked differently because of that. Now let me tell you the other story. Yeah. I don't
mike rusch.:know if it's a story. Keep going. Yeah. Tell that story.
andy chasteen.:So I'm gonna redeem, I'm gonna try to redeem myself here. Another, but it was probably about a year ago, me and my buddy Pat Zimmerman, everybody knows Pat Zimmerman, it's legend around here. Yeah. We were out I would say northeast of gr maybe a year ago. Just riding gravel roads. And we were coming up on this, we came up on this like red I don't know, it was like a little, like a country car, they were coming our direction. And you could see in the distance as we were maybe like a football field away from 'em, they pulled off onto the side of the road and I was like, okay, what's gonna happen here? Are they like pulling off to let us pass and they don't wanna dust us, whatever. And so we get closer and as we get closer, I wave at 'em, and then we just keep going. But the second we get like about even with them I hear this voice, y'all want a beer? And I wasn't planning on stopping, but Pat Zimmerman's tires skid. Like he hits his brakes and you could hear the gravel just skidding. And I'm like I guess we're stopping. And and so we stop and come to find out, I hope there's no law enforcement. No, listen to this because, yeah, because these guys were doing what, oftentimes people do on these way back road, gravel roads, they got a beer in their hand and they're just out for a little slow roll drive, so anyways, we stop and these guys were like, Hey, you guys want a beer? And and I didn't want a beer at the time but Pat loves beer and so we said yes. So they pull out a couple Bush lights, and we proceed to sit there and talk with these guys for I kid you not 45 minutes or so. And one of them had just gotten outta prison. He had prison tattoos all down his, he. All down his arms on his neck, everything. But and they were somewhat blowhards and like hey, we like to float the Elk River, but always, I'm always getting in a fight and beating somebody up 'cause they're, people don't know how to act out there anyways, so we talk about all these different things. Nothing about bikes, right? We don't talk about bikes the entire time. And 30, 45 minutes in we've drank our bush lights and it's time to get, it's time to, to move on. And I'll never forget this, I don't remember exactly what we talked about that whole time. Yeah. But this, I do remember as we're pulling off, the driver goes, man, we usually dust guys like you out here, but I don't think I'm gonna do that anymore. You guys are pretty cool. Yeah. And I just thought to myself, listen, it's face-to-face conversations. Talking to people, treating them with respect, no matter who they are, where they come from, what socioeconomic background they have, doesn't matter. And that was a good lesson for me, for waving at people wherever you are, taking the time to to talk to people where they're at in their place, maybe even in their life, right? And so I hope that redeems me a little bit for that, for the first story. But, and one other thing I always tell my daughter's 15 years old, and I'm trying to guide her in a way to becoming a really good human being as an adult. And I tell her this constantly again, it's simple truth, right? The simple truth is when you come into a conversation with someone, and I tell her this, you always wanna leave that person feeling better at the end of that conversation, then you found them and listen, is there a better way to live life? I don't think so. No. And I probably told her that hundreds of times over the years. And I didn't leave those people in a better place than I found them, the people that flipped me off on Ford Springs Road, but I did with these gentlemen. And those are two contrasting, interactions. And I think the answer is clear on which one is the correct one, right? Unless you don't drink beer, then don't drink the beer. Yeah. What I
mike rusch.:hear. Yeah. What I hear though is, hey, maybe we can move past what our outer appearances may form those opinions and feel like I heard someone say, with social media these days I can go see your social media feed and I can know everything about you except I don't know you. I know, right? And so you're starting those conversations at a different place. Yeah. With a different maybe lens and different filter. And I think it's a great reminder. I love that story because it's a reminder and an encouragement that, man, if we can just slow down a little bit that yeah, there are opportunities to really build some bridges and who knows where those will go. Maybe on one side you've got, Hey, I wish I could have a do-over on that. But on the other side you're like, man you probably, you, who knows what confrontation has been, avoided for the future for those guys. Maybe that they're not gonna dust the next people and lowers the temperature a bit and where we're at as a culture?
andy chasteen.:I think so, and again, listen, I'm not sitting here pretending to know the answers to everything I 'cause I don't. And most of my answers are just super simple, right? I'm not this complex thinker, I'm just not. But there are a few simple things that we can put into use in our day-to-day lives that will make other people's lives around us better. Yeah. And what, how else can you make change in the world? Especially if you're just one human? Unless you're, and unless you become a part of this big change group that's like changing the world, on this large scale. But, most people aren't, most people can change the world one person at a time in one-on-one interactions every day. And why can't we all do that?
mike rusch.:Yeah, I think it is as simple as that. We had an opportunity you and I talked after I had a chance to sit down with Kyle Yeah. And Kyle at the Ozark podcast where we had, they had a couple conversations about cycling and the Ozarks and maybe these divides that we're talking about. They sat down with a friend of mine, Dr. Jared Phillips, who's a historian, also leader of the Ozark Studies Association farmer. Living in the agrarian world. But those conversations have been hard. I've had a chance to sit within those spaces a little bit. Yeah. And to hear some of where they're coming from. But I think for a lot of people in the cycling community, I let my whole cycling group listen. I asked them to yeah. To listen to these conversations and there's a really mixed bag Sure. Of reactions and listening to some of those. And Yeah. I'm curious what do you take away from that, or where do you think that starting point is, or what does that, what are the implications for some of those conversations for us?
andy chasteen.:Yeah. I, I have to be honest, when I listened to the pod with Jared Phillips Yeah I was, I'm probably not proud. I was offended, I was quite offended by what he said. And some of it is just because I know the cycling community and I don't believe that his version of it was correct. You know what I'm saying? And so there was like this immediate like defensiveness Sure. Obviously that's like kind of human nature, right? And then and then, if I'm being honest, the two gentlemen that do the Ozark podcast, yeah. I love that podcast. I actually listened to a lot of the hunting ones. I think that pot is awesome. But I, I thought to myself. Screw these guys. They don't know the story. They don't know us. They, they're close-minded. And that was my really, my truly initial reaction. Don't think you're alone in that. And I'm not proud to say that, but I, it was my, I had a text thread going with some buddys of mine, and I was like, man, this is why we get hit with apples. You know what I'm saying? By cars passing and or flipped off or whatever. And and then I had the ability, or I had the opportunity to listen to your pod with them. And phenomenal job, by the way. That's a overly kind. You really. You did a really good job of allowing these guys to think and understand the, the other side of the coin and see some nuance in the subject, right? Are we perfect? No, we are not perfect. Cyclists are not perfect. We obviously have our issues where we can do better of, obviously, but I think that you did an amazing job and I also really appreciated those two being understanding and being willing to see the other side of it. Yeah. I see those two gentlemen completely different now. Yeah. Whereas I was offended, oh, they're close-minded. They're, they hate us. After that podcast I was like, I respect those guys for listening to another side. Being willing to at least change their point of view in a way, or at least being able to understand the other side of the conversation. And I can't tell you how much better I feel having listened to that second podcast knowing that at least they got to listen to another side of the story and to understand where we're coming from. A cyclists. Yeah. And listen, I understand, I, I understand their conversation and their arguments around conservation and things like that. I get it. And I've spent some, a lot of time understanding and trying to think, okay, where could cyclists contribute on the conservation side? And I don't have the answer to that yet. Yeah. I just don't. But I will say I left that podcast with you, with them thinking okay, progress. Progress was made, and that's all we can ask for, right? And then we make more progress later, and maybe the R three helps with this, a hundred percent. Maybe that comes in, maybe there's a link there, right? Maybe we get Bobby on there eventually. I know they're moving into the hunting season. I get that. I totally get it. And we can pause on that, but I think there's a way in all ways not just this one, we should be able to coexist.
mike rusch.:And I would say thanks. And credit to Kyle and Kyle for, they didn't have to, they didn't have to, they right, they didn't have open that up. But they care deeply about this place. They care deeply about the Ozarks. You can tell they do. They care deeply about people. And I think it's a good opportunity to step into these conversations that we're talking to lower the temperature. Yeah. And yeah, we may not have started in a great spot, but if we can walk away seeing each other that maybe not everybody's the way that I think they are. I think this is where the work that you've been leading, I think has been really helpful. I, I mean, I walked through those conversations thinking, gosh, can we make it simple about how do we acknowledge and see the humanity and everyone, we talked about the wave a little bit, but I think those are the spaces that we have an opportunity as a cycling community to build bridges within other communities and to lower those temperatures in a way that can help us build this community in this space of the Ozarks. Maybe in a way that, that we, I don't know, maybe that's not happening as much as we would like it to happen. And I do think, like thinking about our Arkansas R3. Great opportunities. We should all sit down in a room together and yeah, we should have conversations about what does it look like to build relationships. And people like Wes or Jared or Kyle's coming in and sitting down. Yeah. I guarantee you, if everybody was sitting at a table together, we would walk away with everyone hugging, patting everybody on the back. For sure. And so I think it's, these spaces just don't exist very often, our community. And so I think it's, I think it's imperative. I, and I feel like Andy, you're one who does this all the time, but I'll sit at a table with anybody and so if we can start that from a different place, then I think there's, yeah, I think there's good things that are gonna come out of it.
andy chasteen.:I just still think that let's say that we never make any progress with this, let's say this tension between let's say hunters or the, the folks who live out on the, the gravel roads that we ride and us, let's just say that we never make meaningful. We can't come to this agreement on whatever the topic is. We can still agree that we're all humans and we all want the best life that we can have and that we want the best life that other people can have as well. I think that is enough. That's the thing. That's enough. Even if we disagree on other things, listen, I think there is progress to be made, but even if there's not, I think that is enough, right? Yeah, it's enough. And that's what I'm trying, that's what I really wish people could like, just get in their brains. We're not gonna agree on everything and there's gonna be some important things that we don't agree on. But that's a, that's okay. Yeah.
mike rusch.:It's not an excuse to let it devolve and to,
andy chasteen.:it's not. It's not. And I think the progress should always be like, we should strive for progress. And I think that we should really go after this with the R3 through thing. That's not what I'm saying. My, what I am saying is even if we don't make progress on it, like I think that's, it's enough that we're all human beings and that's enough. Yeah. We don't have to hate each other. We don't have to, I don't have to yell in someone's car window at 'em. And they don't also don't have to flip me off, thanks.
mike rusch.:And I would say too, you have a place down in Newton County and you're riding down there a lot. You're creating events down there. So you are a part of that community in many ways too. And
andy chasteen.:I've met a lot of great people on those roads out there, man. Like I've stopped and had conversations with. I had this amazing I, again, I don't know how long we want this podcast to go, but I met this guy. Keep going. I met this guy up on I don't know that I want, yeah, I'll say it. I met this guy that owned some land up on Keys Gap in Newton County. And he was out on the road and I was, and he, I think he was just, he stopped and I think I was on the side of the road on my bike, stopped for some reason. He stopped and said hello, and I was like, we got to talking. And he's yeah, man. I moved here from New York 50 years ago. 50 years. Yes. And and I was like, man. You've been here for a long time, and he's yeah, they still don't consider me a local, which I thought was so great. Yeah. There is that, you've talked a lot about the history of Arkansas and like I've learned about a lot about it in Newton County. You are not considered a local unless I think if you, unless you have like grandparents in the cemetery there, or maybe great grandparents, don't quote me on that. I'm just saying that is how ingrained historical, history and culture is there. Like it's really interesting to learn these things from people, and this was also a really crazy, obviously polarizing topic, and I don't mean to go all over the place, but I'm, it's funny that I'm learning all these cool things about people that I didn't know anything about, right? And I think you, and I may have talked about this before, but back when they were talking about the designation of the Buffalo, right? You, national Park or whatever. And there was the uproar, the people didn't want it. And the argument I think one of the arguments was like you're, your property values are gonna raise. And I heard so many locals out there saying, I don't care. I'm passing this down to my family for generations. We don't want our property values to increase 'cause that's more property taxes. And I thought, duh, I'm such an idiot. I would've never thought of that because I live in the city and I want my property, to, to increase in value. And it's like we don't understand other people's point of views if we're not in their shoes, and we will never understand their point of views unless we ask. That's right. So like on a, almost on a daily basis, I feel like a dumb because I wasn't thinking from the point of view of someone else and maybe we should all be that way. Yeah.
mike rusch.:I walk into those spaces with a posture of learning to me, what does it mean to belong to a place? Yeah. There's people in this region and the Ozarks that can really have something to say about this. Yeah. And I think when we care about this place as much as so many people do, it changes our posture. When we're out on a bike riding through these communities, we see people differently. They mattered. Yeah, that's right. In a way that maybe we don't give them credit for. We're not there to fix anything. And I think that was the spirit of the conversation, the Ozark podcast is, and I, we take that posture of seeing each other and what we have to learn from others in a way that, Yeah, can be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I think we could sit here and I honestly believe we can't hear this enough. We can't talk about this enough of seeing each other yeah. As human beings first. And so I really appreciate that, and I think the way that works itself into the cycling community, really. Yeah. There's some opportunities there that I think can really be a healing place and a place of unity for our community. And so I wanna lean into that as much as I can. Tell me tell me what you got going on for this next year. I know you have this mountain bike race that you call Rule of Three. I think is what it is. But yeah what that continues to be an incredible success. I know you've got the Death March of Newton County, is that what it's called? The brutality? Yeah. I'm just messing with you. Interesting. Yeah. Tell me what is, yeah. What's the next year look for? What are you looking forward to?
andy chasteen.:So our Lauren and I, yeah. I always like to say rule of three doesn't happen without Lauren. We do. We do. And that's true. She does all the work. Rule of three, again, I'm a broken record. I say this all the time, but rule of three is really a hobby of ours. Or a hobby of mine. I have a real job, obviously. Yeah. Rule of three is a hobby, but it I used to put on, I used to put on a climbing event. I'm still in, I'm still involved with it. It's one of my best buds runs it now. And these events that I've put on, I've always, I'm always biting off more than I can chew. But they really are for me. They're like this cool time to bring loads of people into one place together, right? For this feel good, happy, good, maybe this is your chance to escape your stressful life for a week or whatever, right? And so that has always been the, for me, the impotence of putting these events on. We have rule of 3 99 coming up and yeah, but see that's not till February. So that's a ways off. But rule of 3 99 is this really cool we call it a free event. It's free ish. It's it costs you $43 to sign up and if you show up on the day, you get your $40 refunded and the three, whatever, $3 and 99 cents that's the bike reg fee that we have to pay. So basically we take$0 and any money. So we give you your $40 back when you show up. But if you don't show up, we take that $40 and we give it to Peddle it Forward. Yeah. Which is great. And so it's like this fun day where we send you out on these, a couple of heinous, obviously rule of three routes, and it's in the middle of winter, so the weathers usually sucks and there's usually like 600 people or something.
mike rusch.:Yeah. It's almost like you plan for people not to show up. I think this is the ra. As I listen to you Yeah. I think I'm
andy chasteen.:onto you here. It's, and the beau the beautiful part of that, and I'm not trying to like pressure people into this, but even most people who show up, they say, keep my $40. Give it to Peddle it Forward. I think Peddle it Forward is one of the coolest organizations in town. They are. They exist to put people on bikes that otherwise couldn't have them. And I think that is such an insanely cool. Yeah. So I believe in what they're doing. And so what we do is we give, there's no administrative fees. Had, sometimes you'll get those little secret administrative, no, we give them every single dime that we keep from, people donating, whatever. And so I think it's usually in the realm of I dunno,$15,000 or something like that. That's crazy. So anyways, that's a super fun that's a super fun weekend. And then we have Hazel Valley rally after that, which is a really hard day out in the Ozark, national Forest, which is super cool. And and that one's really fun. And then the, obviously the main event in, in May is Rule of Three. You like to call it a mountain bike race. Shame on you.
mike rusch.:You have yet to convince me otherwise, although I did see an announcement that you're gonna add some more gravel to it. Yeah. So I feel like maybe that's an admission if it's too much of a mountain bike race.
andy chasteen.:Yeah. But I, so every year we send out a survey, right? Yeah. We ask people.'cause. I always like to say, obviously I own the event, but I don't want it to feel like I own the event. I want everyone who comes to feel like they own a little piece. And in order to feel like you own a little piece you should feel like you have a say. So we always do a survey and we ask, how could we do it better? What are things that we could do, whatever. We had a bunch of people say, this year, your t-shirt sucked this year. And I was like, dang it. I thought that was the greatest shirt we have ever had. What a terrible idea I had. Apparently. Terrible human being. I know. Yeah. The shirt this year said this past year, said I conquered the rule of three and all I got was this lousy tee. Yeah. And apparently a bunch of people didn't like it. They didn't like it, so whatever. Anyways, we won't do that again. But so we had some feedback on too much trail things like that. And so Lauren and I put our heads together and we were like, we also asked on distances and things like that. And so we put our heads together and we came up with, a lot of people wanted to see maybe a longer 50 miler or like even a shorter distance for people who wanted to dip their toes into the Rule of Three experience. So we decided to come up. I think what we're doing is like a 35 miler, a 60 miler, and 115 miler, and what that's gonna do is that's gonna allow us to add a little bit more gravel to some, to these distances. And most of that gravel's gonna be in the front end so that there's less bottlenecks in the single track, which, listen, I want people to be able to have the best experience they have, and some people do get bottled up at the single track and that I get gutted because I know I that really upsets me.'Cause I really want people to be able to like, achieve their goals that they have for this event. I could care less if they get on the podium. I want people to have goals and achieve them. Even if it's just to finish. But some people have time goals and if you have a time goal and you're sitting in the single track for five minutes waiting on like a hundred people in front of you to get in, you're not getting a clear shot at realizing your goals. And so we're gonna try to, stick all that front end gravel on the front end of the, on the, of the course. So that it's much more spread out once you hit that single track. And then the 35 miler will be really cool. It'll be, we're gonna call it like rule of three light. It'll have maybe two miles of single track and it'll be super mellow.
mike rusch.:Oh, that's really nice of you to think that's what you're gonna call it. But we will be the judge of this to Andy.
andy chasteen.:And I think last year, this past year, I would say that we probably did have a little bit too. I ride the courses and I always have this sinister smile on my face 'cause I'm like, oh, I've, oh, people are gonna be so pissed at this spot. At this spot they're gonna be so mad at me. And I want that, right? I want people to have an unforgettable day, even if it's terrible in the moment. We know this, you know this. You've been on these rides. I have. I know. So I've been on these rides where it's the most horrible day, all day long, but it's the one I remember forever, right? And so I get I get stuck in this rabbit hole of it's gotta be the hardest ever. Yeah. It's gotta be the hardest ever when in reality it just needs to be hard. Yeah. Doesn't need to be the hardest ever,
mike rusch.:I don't know who the psychologist is, but they always talk about these dimensions of ourselves. Like it's the things you know about yourself and that others know about you. Yeah. And then there's the things that you know about yourself that nobody else does. And then there's things that everybody knows about you, but you don't know about yourself. And I, we know this, Andy, oh my gosh. We know that this is at your heart. No, I, in all seriousness in all the events that you do are just world class and they're amazing. Community building, culture building, accessible to people. And I, if I could only do those events in northwest Arkansas that's a gift to the entire community. And so really thankful for you and Lauren and all the work that you guys do to Yeah. To bring those to life.'cause it really matters and it's really beautiful.
andy chasteen.:We do love putting 'em on. And and I do, I, listen, actually, let me rephrase that. I don't like putting 'em on. I just lied to you. Yeah. I don't like putting 'em on. But you know what, I do love? I love the results of them and the results after the event makes it all worth it if I'm being honest, because I love seeing those smiling faces. Listen, I've been flipped off at the finish line, but later those people come back and say, that was the best day. Yeah. They just didn't think so in the moment. Yeah. Oh my goodness gracious. We could talk about that forever. We love it. Yeah. Andy, give us a word to finish this conversation up. Oh gosh. How you Yeah. I'm just thankful you let me spew out all of my anytime pent up emotion today. Anytime. I don't, I talk about these things with, friends and stuff at times, but I think more people need to find commonality in each other. And if we could do that, I think we'll be all right. I really do. I think we'll be all right. And thank you for letting me come on here and thank you. Literally steering this podcast way off course from the very beginning. So thanks.
mike rusch.:You did not, I think this is, this is what we're here to talk about, right? These are real things that are happening in our community, and I think we're looking for people who can help us make sense of it, but also help us process it and Yeah ask the hard questions and challenge us to to become, to continue to become the community that we want to be. And I think you are a community builder and you are part of that. And so I think your wisdom and just the energy that you bring to it's a serious thing. And so I think we, I think it's time to take things seriously. And so I'm, yeah. I'm really thankful that you'd come in and be as open as you have been about Yeah. The things that we need to think about and to maybe challenge us all to say. That at the end of the day this is about the human being in front of you. And I don't, again, I don't think we can talk about that enough. Yeah. And
andy chasteen.:I love this city and I love this state. I love this country. I really want to see us thrive. I really do. And again, I don't have the answers, but I think there are a few little things that we can all change to to make this steer maybe in a better direction. Thank you
mike rusch.:Andy, you're welcome. Anytime. Thanks for coming and sitting with me. And
andy chasteen.:thanks dude. Yeah.
mike rusch.:Appreciate you so much. Well, my incredible thanks to Andy for joining me again and continuing to challenge and inspire the cycling community here in northwest Arkansas. What we've heard in this conversation is that cycling is not just about bikes or trails or events. It's about the people. It's about who we are becoming as a community and whether we will use cycling to draw lines between us or to build bridges across those lines. The fractures we see in our national dialogue are not far away. They are here, they're moving through our own neighborhood. And yes, even through the cycling community, the heart and soul of Northwest Arkansas is being tested. Cycling and the arts have transformed this region, reshaping not just our landscape, but our identity. Yet the deeper question remains, will these movements become commodified, reduced to events, marketing, or tourism? All of those are good, but we would hope that they would become instruments of belonging, places where we can practice inclusion extend, welcome. The All Bikes welcome mural showed us just how high the stakes are because it wasn't only a debate about paint on the wall, it was about whether our community has the courage to live into those words that everyone is welcome. Andy reminded us that belonging requires more than just our words. It requires kindness, humility, and the willingness to see each other first, as neighbors and fellow riders before opponents, it requires leadership that refuses to mirror national polarization, and instead chooses to model welcome and repair and a generosity of spirit. It requires each of us, whether we are riding gravel roads, city greenways, or mountain trails, to practice this simple act of connection to wave, to greet, and to make space for one another. So the invitation is before us, the cycling community in northwest Arkansas has already changed the way the world sees this region. And now we must decide if we will also be a part of helping to change the way that we see one another. If we will help heal divides and strengthen relationships and create a place where belonging is not simply a marketing message, but a lived reality. I wanna say thank you to Andy for your vision and your leadership and your just brutal honesty in this conversation. I think it's something that we all can take note of and begin to practice. And for everyone else that's listening, I wanna say thank you for being the most important part of what our community is becoming. This is the overview and exploration in the shaping of our place.
